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Microsoft joins OpenChain to... "build trust in open source"?

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Microsoft has joined "OpenChain Project", which is part of the Linux Foundation (of which Microsoft sits on the board) with the goal of "build[ing] trust in open source by making open source license compliance simpler and more consistent." Other members of OpenChain: Facebook, Adobe, Comcast, Sony, and Uber. More info, MP3 RSS Feed, & how to support the show: http://www.lunduke.com == Made possible by == Amazing Laptops with Free Software and hardware kill switches. Purism: https://puri.sm/ Amazing servers and workstations, powered by Linux. Pogo Linux: http://www.pogolinux.com/ Amazing 3D Printers. LulzBot 3D Printers: https://www.lulzbot.com/ Amazing Hosting: Linode: https://linode.com/lunduke
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Text Comments (128)
Einar (1 hour ago)
I have a theory: Microsoft has no idea how to maintain their Kernel, and every patch is a dice roll on whether there's a fundamental conflict between components which makes it impossible to patch. At this point, MS will roll out a linux based replacement that they'll recommend all critical systems to use if the security flaw they want to patch is big enough. Windows 10's two-faced control panel is a good indication that they really don't know how to migrate the windows 2000 era components over to the new design paradigm they wanted, as the control panel is essentially split in two, the control panel I recognize from Windows XP, and the new one that's completely useless (as all proper controls are in the XP one to begin with). This is why they want to move away from offering W10 as a paid product, they fear a complete consumer backlash if the product breaks irrepairably.
hakology (5 hours ago)
nononononononononono .... lies. Don't trust them.
Fernabi aner (1 day ago)
a nice show, thank you bryan!
asumazilla (3 days ago)
The license comes with the code. There, fixed it for you.
ytbabbler (4 days ago)
Never trust Microsoft, just never do it, they hate everything open and will only try to destroy it.
Dave (4 days ago)
Imagine you are a business owner and you have two software options: one is free but because of some high-profile cases you imagine that there is a huge risk that you might unintentionally be non-compliant with the license and get sued for loads of money, while the other option costs a small up-front fee but then you don't have to worry about licensing issues. Which do you think most people will chose? Microsoft knows...
madhmpf (4 days ago)
You are looking at this from the wrong perspective... It is not about building trust among users, but among the CEOs of their members. Companies are beginning to realize that a GPL violation can potentially be very, very expensive. So they might hesitate to use software like Linux in their products, because they don't understand what exactly their obligations are (even though the GPL isn't that hard to understand, when you take the time to actually read it). So there's a market for organizations that "help" other companies by providing audits and guidelines and stuff like that, centered around open source licence compliance. So basically, they tell those companies "look, it's fine. you can use linux in your product without needing to open source your whole software" And i talk from first hand experience here... I'm an embedded softwarew developer, and we decided to use linux in our next product. We told the CEO what we were going to do, and all was fine, until one day he ran into my office saying stuff along the lines of "you can't use open source software, you have to start over, it's too risky". All because he read an article somewhere, about companies getting sued for GPL violations. Of course, we had already committed to linux, and starting from scratch wasn't an option. We tried to convince him that everything would be fine, but it wasn't easy. So we turned to one of those "compliance organizations" and they kindly offered a free 1-day training, where they explained the GPL and outlined the basic steps of what we would have to do. Of course, they would have liked for us to become a member too, and who knows... maybe we will.
Priyanshu Jindal (4 days ago)
Seems like all of these companies use Open source products in their products and whenever the license specify they have to attribute the source, they just don't and by this they may try to get away with it
Maximilian Kriegl (4 days ago)
Instead of "open source-iness" lets call it "Open Source-ery", because its so magical ;)
Kushagra Karira (4 days ago)
Dislikes are openchain and Microsoft
Greg Turner (4 days ago)
I feel like the writing has been on the wall about the Linux Foundation for a long time. What is more interesting, at least to me, since I don't understand it, really, is how this came to be. What are the institutional dynamics -- not just the financial incentives -- that motivate these mega-foundations like mozilla, etc., to make decisions that thwart their own purpose? Is there, perhaps, a size or power limit, beyond which serious philanthropic motivations simply cannot penetrate? And if not, what are these foundations doing wrong? Are the fixable? Or should we just give up on them and regard them the same way we would the legal department at BP/Amoco or something like that?
Horațiu Mărășescu (4 days ago)
"Do not trust the horse, Trojans. Whatever it is, I fear the Greeks even when they bring gifts."
Jan Jan (4 days ago)
Lol it is meant to put chains upon freedom lol
MyselfAgain (4 days ago)
My two cents here: given how many people who use Windows and have not considered moving to OSS out of old misperceptions/propaganda made to muddy the waters, I wonder is MS is doing this as an easy way to create another misconception: "if it can be forked, it can be stolen." I can honestly imagine a conversation with my grand folks asking me if OSS is actually piracy out of never doing their own research. But where I can easily explain the situation, how many windows only families have someone that can clear the OSS perception for them? This is an attack on OSS's image.
Wesley Mercer (4 days ago)
First, Microsoft starts using the Chromium project for their new "edge" browser, next Google kills Ad Blockers, and now everyone is joining OpenChain. All of this sounds a bit fishy to me. Now I have to say, at least for me, I have seen a lot more information about Linux and Open Source software lately as I have just started using Linux Ubuntu as my "daily driver" OS. I don't really know what to think about it though as we stand. Is linux going to take over the market?
I Sleep (4 days ago)
Microsoft is only supporting open source to kill it later
Bullfrog's Workshop (9 hours ago)
The only thing they can hope to do is sway people into staying with Microsoft products.
Don Honas (4 days ago)
I have a lot of trust for Microsoft. That is to say that they will act as a large corporations (with a bottom line to create revenue and value for stock-owners) do when run competently. That sadly means getting a leg up and succeed to gain control of the market. Sadly that means that corporations do not often function well with open source values.
cherubin7th (4 days ago)
I am optimistic. Yes this corporations want to use open source software for their proprietary products. So this project is supposed to help such corporations to do that and still comply with the licenses. But this means that the supplier side gets more open source and this will destroy proprietary vendors on the supplier side of things. I think in the short term this is good for proprietary software vendors, but in the long term they are destroying the markets for proprietary software more and more.
Grant Kruger (4 days ago)
I trust Open Source just fine without Microsoft's contribution. More so, in fact.
djchristian82 (4 days ago)
Can't wait until Microsoft sponsors Lunduke Show and turn it into a TechNet podcast.
Dominic Davis-Foster (4 days ago)
Linux Foundation is going down the toilet
Bruce Chastain (4 days ago)
the whole thing stinks if you ask me.
Akitake (4 days ago)
The Linux Foundation is the downfall of Linux as we know it.
Microsoft plays by their handbook: Adopt, expand, extinguish.
[email protected] (4 days ago)
Useless company joins useless organisation, more news at 11.
Janne Granström (4 days ago)
Foundation for they who just use open source for their benefits. Like "we are here too!" Well jep but no :)
The Garden of Eatin (4 days ago)
Adobe + Open Source = PDF.
Ian Henderson (4 days ago)
blatant grab for power?
TimelessTrance (4 days ago)
The only good thing adobe made was PDF... format, not reader.
Tim H. (4 days ago)
We as the FOSS community really need to start building our mars colonies now so it's easy enough to jump ship when Linux tanks from all this corporate involvement. Get Redox up and self-hosting pronto, then make it as awesome as it can be. Take Linux and say "Heck with all this noise", strip it down to bare essentials, throw POSIX to the wind and make something else awesome. Hell, even that bare metal node.js kernel would be worth exploring if only for fringe development. We need new ideas and fresh air in the FOSS OS game, and Linux being consumed and stifled by megacorporations is a perfectly good kick in the pants to get us back to doing what OSS devs do best: massively parallel design iteration.
I feel synergistically migrated to a collaborative, open source blockchain of interoperability!
Sean Campbell ن (4 days ago)
Linux Foundation best watch their backs.
Bullfrog's Workshop (9 hours ago)
Lol. They're already doomed. Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahha!
CountryfiedLinux (4 days ago)
I see there's people that think this is still Steve Ballmer's Microsoft.
CountryfiedLinux (3 days ago)
I haven't seen any actual evidence of this kind of thing actually happening, but of course I'm against it if it does. It's definitely violating their TOS.+Mitchel Valentino
Mitchel Valentino (3 days ago)
CountryfiedLinux No, I haven’t. They don’t siphon as you suggest. But they can. Instead they monitor activity in real time. If something trips their algo, then they might record remotely. Seriously, don’t be naive. Not only can Microsoft do this, but so can third party bad actors who have backdoors to your system at a lower level than the OS. Intel Management Engine, for example. Check out some of Snowden’s info, too. It’s the layer below the OS typically.
CountryfiedLinux (3 days ago)
+Mitchel Valentino You've actually observed Microsoft siphoning data directly from the local drive? If that's the case then they should take legal action against Microsoft because that violates their own terms of service.
Mitchel Valentino (3 days ago)
Best to just install Debian or Fedora or Mint or whatever Linux distro one prefers.
Mitchel Valentino (3 days ago)
CountryfiedLinux I’m a professional pen tester. I’ve observed it on my clients’ various Windows 10 systems. The LTSB release is the only version that ever cooperates with the user, and even the LTSB version requires some serious tinkering via PowerShell scripts to function in a non-invasive, sane way. If you can get ahold of a pirated or legitimate LTSB version, I highly recommend it. It’ll still fight the user to update and phone home, but only infrequently and it’s easily mitigated. Every other version of Windows 10 is a dumpster fire of an OS from a security and privacy standpoint.
rigtio8887 (4 days ago)
>Microsoft >open >trust Even without watching the video you can tell that this whole thing is a shitshow
Jay Bhagat (4 days ago)
Alexios Zavras swallowed Brian Kernighan 12:26
Jonathan Hirschbaum (4 days ago)
Fork everything GitHub until you can
Confused Wolf (4 days ago)
Microsoft anything: open source? contradiction!. you get nag messages if you do not stir your coffee from monkeysoft...I smell corporate lies (remember Microsoft came from....). Am sure the elders of the community have clean source for core that Monkeysoft can go after huh?
TheToric (5 days ago)
If Microsoft wants my trust, they need to formally apologize for past actions, release ALL their code under gpl, mit, or bsd, and change thier name.
Geff Travis (5 days ago)
Hi watched your video and subscribed to your channel! I just recently built a new PC for running Linux from the parts I had from upgrading my Win7 gaming PC. I'm not a hardcore computer tech I think these companies are concerned that "regular" guys like me are starting to migrate to Linux use a good VPN with TOR and away from all the snooping, data mining and telemetry on the Windows 10 OS which I despise (I have a laptop with it). I have concerns about where this is all going I am migrating to Linux and minimizing my use of services like Goggle, Amazon and anything else I think might snooping on me. How can these companies attempt to infiltrate the Linux/Open Source community and subvert it be defended against? Thanks for the video's!
PixelOutlaw (5 days ago)
Should be called Open Ball & Chain if Microsoft is involved.
Udo (5 days ago)
Yes, this seems to be about convincing companies to pay extra to "cover their bases" when dealing with those scary open source things. As a byproduct, open source is made to look extra scary. This is "innovation" brought to you by lawyers.
DUck69 (5 days ago)
test comment
DUck69 (3 days ago)
Thank you for confirming. Back when I wrote that I suspected comments I make on this user were being hidden for others, but I have since concluded that is only the case sometimes.
Tom Marrero-Ortiz (3 days ago)
Test successfully complete...
Vladi Dlr (5 days ago)
They're trying so hard It's metastatic by now. Something off.
Alpha Visari (5 days ago)
Can’t trust Microsoft
Bullfrog's Workshop (8 hours ago)
+Alpha Visari I use Haiku, FreeBSD and OpenBSD. I have no use for Win/Mac/Linux.
Alpha Visari (9 hours ago)
+Bullfrog's Workshop yep, you can't fully trust linux either.
Bullfrog's Workshop (9 hours ago)
And following that logic, I no longer trust Linux due to Microsoft's seat on the Linux Foundation board.
42jnyl (5 days ago)
"Build trust" lol I can't think of any organizations I trust less than Google, Facebook, and Microsoft.
Alexandru Dragoi (5 days ago)
Facebook made FBOSS :)
Stephen Baldassarre (4 days ago)
Harman's whole MO is to buy reputable audio equipment manufacturers, shut down their R&D departments and move production to 3rd world countries. I really don't think they care about open-source anything.
Vladimir Mišev (5 days ago)
Fact that MS joined gives me a lot of trust, but I'll believe that they are truly about Open[A-Z] only if Oracle jumps on board ;> /s
Bit Surface (5 days ago)
complete slavery!!!! let's make revolution!!!! Sony, Microsoft, Adobe, lol. I am missing Autodesk :))))
Ron Netgrazer (3 days ago)
Autodesk would feel right at home in this corporate clubhouse.
jubalrahl (5 days ago)
The Legion of Doom!!!!!
heretolevitateme (5 days ago)
So...this a warchest AGAINST open source. "Make open source more friendly to our corporate interests."
bugsz1 (5 days ago)
...keep your enemies closer. - Microsoft
Okuno Zankoku (5 days ago)
If people had lost trust in me because I'd done a bunch of shitty things and I wanted to regain that trust, my strategy would be: 1) Shut the hell up about building trust, 2) do awesome things, 3) let trust sort itself out. It might just be that Microsoft needs to fire some communications "experts", but anytime I hear the word "trust" come out of Microsoft it reminds me of their past failures. As far as "building trust in open source licensing", uh... it's not that hard to trust an open source license. What they say is "even if we become actively malicious, at least you can just fork the last working version of the codebase and then can do things with it". That's why I use FLOSS stuff wherever I can. I don't even know what OpenChain is positioning itself for, but it looks more like some B2B BS than something by, for, and of the people.
Xyxox (5 days ago)
Harman is a Samsung subsidiary.
Andrew Greimann (5 days ago)
And Microserfs wonder why I do not trust what MSFT is doing... until Linux gets full Secure Boot support, Office is ported over, or other significant things that help *Linux* rather than take advantage of it are done, I really can’t trust that the new Microsoft has changed. Steps like this just ease the way for embracing Linux in three E’s fashion.
Tom Marrero-Ortiz (5 days ago)
I'm sorry, but Microsoft has always been the opposite of standardization.
tom merchant (5 days ago)
Hey Facebook gave us React!
rationalityfirst (3 days ago)
you forgot the /sarcasm
Anthony Rye (5 days ago)
Just checked and read portions of openchain FAQ and portions of what the openchain initiative is trying to achieve. First item I found concerning was avoiding legal responsibility. Second was creative Commons 4.0 this a very lengthy licensing model which has a lot of caveats so simple and easy licensing can't be farther from the truth. I think this will also allow the foundation to effectively control any future code so that if there is any potential conflicts via COC devs that contributed code to projects would not be able to pull their code like they could in gpl v2. Other issues that might have cropped up from this initiative is it is mandatory to be trained, and also the use of spdx which in the case of spdx I know it has to do with data exchange but I haven't researched enough of it yet to give a definite opinion based of facts. I agree the members that joined the openchain initiative a far from trustworthy. Especially when it comes to to privacy.
sjukfan (5 days ago)
Yeah... my eyes just glazed over when they started to speak corponese.
Asad Ahmad (5 days ago)
Microsoft, Google and Facebook are child molesting babysitters!!
Daniel Maslowski (5 days ago)
Besides the OSI or FSF, I am missing Apple in the list.
Tom Marrero-Ortiz (3 days ago)
I sorry to ask, why Apple?
Chad V (5 days ago)
Sorry, but the only thing that MSFT is building lately is mis/distrust...
Mc Swabin (5 days ago)
tl;dr Microsoft uses the open source compliance program as a proxy to extinguish competition similar to the SCO vs Linux battle. It's coming people. It's coming.
Ionut Dan Ognef (5 days ago)
so..i agree with you most of the time, but the thing about Microsoft is kinda getting old. I'm not a fanboy...i own a macbook with linux on it. Microsoft is a company, with employees that change and leadership that change, so maybe it can be real that the mentality has changed. Another thing is that every linux guru wished for mainstream linux...now it's mainstream. Did you really expect big companies not to want a piece of the pie?
j kadaver (4 days ago)
Ionut Dan Ognef Mircroshaft Have done very little to help but, have done a whole lot to damage to trust in the open source community. And have hardly made even the bare minimum effort’s to show they have any interest in actually advancing the world of open source. Instead what we have is a company that for years has been doing everything they can to shut down open source and if they can’t shut it down they find a way to leech money off of it. As if they didn’t have enough money in the coffers they can’t even resist not leaching license fees from the likes of android. I could quite possibly write an entire book in the comment section hear about why it’s so hard for everyone to drop the miss trust attitude towards Microsoft the power is in their hands to change that attitude and I’ve yet to see them really do anything. The best way they could start windows 11 open source. I mean even apple sorta tried with the OS X/ Darwin thing. On the other hand you hardly see Microsoft moving a inch and acting like they’re doing something special by saying a few buzz words, and pouring money into organizations that honestly I have become quite questionable when it comes to the open source world. Which ends up looking a whole lot more like trying to take over and find a way to control open source community than actually trying to help & improve. About the only open source thing you really see them do ends up being technologies that are damn near obsolete already. Considering how much Microsoft has openly worked against open source initiatives I don’t think Brian rails against them enough. If you’re maintaining a pack of untrained dogs you don’t simply stop correcting the bad ones you continue until they learn to be obedient or else they go rogue. If someone hit you in the face every time you saw them but then one day they came up and hugged you does that mean I’m supposed to suddenly trust that person or should I continue to think they’re up to no good until they actually make a serious effort to turn my opinion around. And until that I probably shouldn’t stop warning people that you might get hit in the face if you get near that person.
Adam Search (5 days ago)
Is it possible it’s more about helping companies out by tracking software licenses so they don’t get hit by lawsuits rather than promoting open source
name surname (5 days ago)
oh, those "open source lovers". I bet I saw GNU/NT and Adobe Creative Suite Community Edition somewhere.
Aaron Rocco (5 days ago)
Embrace, extend, and extinguish will always be the name of the game here
Vanadain (5 days ago)
Maybe we should stop it. Cut off from suspicious companies and their money? Or smthing.
Hrnek Bezucha (5 days ago)
It doesn't matter whether Microsoft &co heart open-source. Because open-source is just another way to leverage more power and money. That's the sole purpose of a company once it gets this big. To generate income. Open-source means lots of people who may contribute and don't have to be paid. They still keep a total control of the software. This will only lead to more projects that are community project wannabe, crippled by design. More open-source licenses in hope to make GPL hard to find and eventually forgotten. Giving people what they want a long as it's not free software. If most open-source projects today were to become _free_ they would need a serious overhaul.
Aries Dragon (5 days ago)
More avenues to peddle their wares. Marketing, Marketing, Marketing. They want dominance not cooperation. Can you say inverted totalitarianism.
fartwhif (5 days ago)
Our new DRM overlord?
Patrick Outhier (5 days ago)
I'll be honest I just saw OpenChain and zoned out. My brain went, Ok people we need to change our image, we are going to start a shell company with a techie modern name and use that as our new public face. Random employee: What if we take open source and blockchain and smash them together. Something like OpenChain. That's perfect Tim, The OpenChain Group will be the new public face of Developer Gulags Inc. Side note the black and white makes every episode feel like a flashback of the previous episode.
Nihil obstat FPV (5 days ago)
Tldr version, it's the money stupid
Lemaki (5 days ago)
I think what they mean by "building trust in open source" is "building trust TOWARDS open source AMONG companies" and not the other way around.
asumazilla (3 days ago)
You mean like being able to read, audit, compile the code?
vskye1 (5 days ago)
Sony released that free rootkit when you bought a CD back in the day. They gave away around 22 million of them. ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal
Mitchel Valentino (5 days ago)
Microsoft is like that meme saying, “Hello there, fellow Linux kids.” What a joke. So does this mean that Microsoft is going to start open sourcing their current software? Will GNU/Windows be the next update of windows 10? MIT license at least? lol. Microsoft is trying to neuter Linux. The Linux Foundation has abysmal myopic standards. Shame on them both. FSF is the true standard bearer of Linux and software freedom.
WorBlux (4 days ago)
They added openSSH and WSL, if a user adds chocolatey and KDE on windows, and you're pretty close to GNU/Windows.
Onur BIÇAKÇI (4 days ago)
Totally agree. They just found new way after halloween documents..
Mitchel Valentino (4 days ago)
Tom Marrero-Ortiz The world is a much better place thanks to Richard Stallman. He’s become a meme, but it doesn’t detract from his sincerity and vision. His actual work and philosophy, when examined closely, is truly remarkable and inspiring.
Tom Marrero-Ortiz (5 days ago)
I Agree with you.
Tom Marrero-Ortiz (5 days ago)
Richard Stallman, founder of the Free Software Foundation, has always been consistent with his ideals. I applaud him for that. No matter how eccentric others might think he is, he is right about proprietary companies and software being unsecure for users.
Andrew Singleton (5 days ago)
'open[thing]' Client/member entities are not required to abide by open standards. 'why are we paying attention to this body?'
Sevak Fair (1 day ago)
Who is? This is clearly a consortium designed around taking money for certification somehow and finding a way for large businesses to stay proprietary while using open source code.
peter geary (5 days ago)
Wow, this totally doesn't look dodgy at all, something tells me they're unhappy with the freedom Linux offers people
fartwhif (5 days ago)
Anyone else getting a whif of our new DRM overlord? Whatever this "OpenChain" might have had in terms of goodness it's been carved out and its skin is obviously now being used to cover this abomination.
BieHDC (5 days ago)
>call yourself Open[thing] >let lots of not open [entity] join lots of these organisations are so hypocritical...
Motolav (5 days ago)
> be executive of Linux foundation > Uses macOS
Eres genial amigo,un abrazo desde San Jerónimo Antioquia Colombia
Marcos Scheeren (5 days ago)
Other members... Facebook.. Adobe.. Case ceased! More like TivotizationChain.

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