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Microsoft joins OpenChain to... "build trust in open source"?

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Microsoft has joined "OpenChain Project", which is part of the Linux Foundation (of which Microsoft sits on the board) with the goal of "build[ing] trust in open source by making open source license compliance simpler and more consistent." Other members of OpenChain: Facebook, Adobe, Comcast, Sony, and Uber. More info, MP3 RSS Feed, & how to support the show: http://www.lunduke.com == Made possible by == Amazing Laptops with Free Software and hardware kill switches. Purism: https://puri.sm/ Amazing servers and workstations, powered by Linux. Pogo Linux: http://www.pogolinux.com/ Amazing 3D Printers. LulzBot 3D Printers: https://www.lulzbot.com/ Amazing Hosting: Linode: https://linode.com/lunduke
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Text Comments (145)
Kenneth Turner (18 days ago)
Licensing means you have to pay for it. That's it.
articcircleado (18 days ago)
The best source of news --- The Lunduke Show
Liokardo (1 month ago)
Are they going to close the chain once they've got full control?
Liokardo (1 month ago)
Open *Chain*
Yue Yu (1 month ago)
Is the Trust the Trust like the Standard Oil built in the early 1900s 🤣
Piotrek Żurek (1 month ago)
It's the other way around. It's building trust for open source among these all companies that use the open code. To make themselves easier to use open code in compliance with code's licenses. It's all about lowering costs of app development, not necessarily giving back to open source projects - that would be only calculated byproduct of using open source components in their own apps.
BatteryProductions (2 months ago)
oh gawd, im going to have to switch to bsd, soon, i feel it...
Einar (2 months ago)
I have a theory: Microsoft has no idea how to maintain their Kernel, and every patch is a dice roll on whether there's a fundamental conflict between components which makes it impossible to patch. At this point, MS will roll out a linux based replacement that they'll recommend all critical systems to use if the security flaw they want to patch is big enough. Windows 10's two-faced control panel is a good indication that they really don't know how to migrate the windows 2000 era components over to the new design paradigm they wanted, as the control panel is essentially split in two, the control panel I recognize from Windows XP, and the new one that's completely useless (as all proper controls are in the XP one to begin with). This is why they want to move away from offering W10 as a paid product, they fear a complete consumer backlash if the product breaks irrepairably.
hakology (2 months ago)
nononononononononono .... lies. Don't trust them.
Fernabi aner (2 months ago)
a nice show, thank you bryan!
asumazilla (2 months ago)
The license comes with the code. There, fixed it for you.
ytbabbler (2 months ago)
Never trust Microsoft, just never do it, they hate everything open and will only try to destroy it.
Dave (2 months ago)
Imagine you are a business owner and you have two software options: one is free but because of some high-profile cases you imagine that there is a huge risk that you might unintentionally be non-compliant with the license and get sued for loads of money, while the other option costs a small up-front fee but then you don't have to worry about licensing issues. Which do you think most people will chose? Microsoft knows...
madhmpf (2 months ago)
You are looking at this from the wrong perspective... It is not about building trust among users, but among the CEOs of their members. Companies are beginning to realize that a GPL violation can potentially be very, very expensive. So they might hesitate to use software like Linux in their products, because they don't understand what exactly their obligations are (even though the GPL isn't that hard to understand, when you take the time to actually read it). So there's a market for organizations that "help" other companies by providing audits and guidelines and stuff like that, centered around open source licence compliance. So basically, they tell those companies "look, it's fine. you can use linux in your product without needing to open source your whole software" And i talk from first hand experience here... I'm an embedded softwarew developer, and we decided to use linux in our next product. We told the CEO what we were going to do, and all was fine, until one day he ran into my office saying stuff along the lines of "you can't use open source software, you have to start over, it's too risky". All because he read an article somewhere, about companies getting sued for GPL violations. Of course, we had already committed to linux, and starting from scratch wasn't an option. We tried to convince him that everything would be fine, but it wasn't easy. So we turned to one of those "compliance organizations" and they kindly offered a free 1-day training, where they explained the GPL and outlined the basic steps of what we would have to do. Of course, they would have liked for us to become a member too, and who knows... maybe we will.
Priyanshu Jindal (2 months ago)
Seems like all of these companies use Open source products in their products and whenever the license specify they have to attribute the source, they just don't and by this they may try to get away with it
Maximilian Kriegl (2 months ago)
Instead of "open source-iness" lets call it "Open Source-ery", because its so magical ;)
Kushagra Karira (2 months ago)
Dislikes are openchain and Microsoft
Greg Turner (2 months ago)
I feel like the writing has been on the wall about the Linux Foundation for a long time. What is more interesting, at least to me, since I don't understand it, really, is how this came to be. What are the institutional dynamics -- not just the financial incentives -- that motivate these mega-foundations like mozilla, etc., to make decisions that thwart their own purpose? Is there, perhaps, a size or power limit, beyond which serious philanthropic motivations simply cannot penetrate? And if not, what are these foundations doing wrong? Are the fixable? Or should we just give up on them and regard them the same way we would the legal department at BP/Amoco or something like that?
Horațiu Mărășescu (2 months ago)
"Do not trust the horse, Trojans. Whatever it is, I fear the Greeks even when they bring gifts."
Jan Jan (2 months ago)
Lol it is meant to put chains upon freedom lol
MyselfAgain (2 months ago)
My two cents here: given how many people who use Windows and have not considered moving to OSS out of old misperceptions/propaganda made to muddy the waters, I wonder is MS is doing this as an easy way to create another misconception: "if it can be forked, it can be stolen." I can honestly imagine a conversation with my grand folks asking me if OSS is actually piracy out of never doing their own research. But where I can easily explain the situation, how many windows only families have someone that can clear the OSS perception for them? This is an attack on OSS's image.
Wesley Mercer (2 months ago)
First, Microsoft starts using the Chromium project for their new "edge" browser, next Google kills Ad Blockers, and now everyone is joining OpenChain. All of this sounds a bit fishy to me. Now I have to say, at least for me, I have seen a lot more information about Linux and Open Source software lately as I have just started using Linux Ubuntu as my "daily driver" OS. I don't really know what to think about it though as we stand. Is linux going to take over the market?
I Sleep (2 months ago)
Microsoft is only supporting open source to kill it later
Bullfrog's Workshop (2 months ago)
The only thing they can hope to do is sway people into staying with Microsoft products.
Don Honas (2 months ago)
I have a lot of trust for Microsoft. That is to say that they will act as a large corporations (with a bottom line to create revenue and value for stock-owners) do when run competently. That sadly means getting a leg up and succeed to gain control of the market. Sadly that means that corporations do not often function well with open source values.
cherubin7th (2 months ago)
I am optimistic. Yes this corporations want to use open source software for their proprietary products. So this project is supposed to help such corporations to do that and still comply with the licenses. But this means that the supplier side gets more open source and this will destroy proprietary vendors on the supplier side of things. I think in the short term this is good for proprietary software vendors, but in the long term they are destroying the markets for proprietary software more and more.
Grant Kruger (2 months ago)
I trust Open Source just fine without Microsoft's contribution. More so, in fact.
djchristian82 (2 months ago)
Can't wait until Microsoft sponsors Lunduke Show and turn it into a TechNet podcast.
Dominic Davis-Foster (2 months ago)
Linux Foundation is going down the toilet
Bruce Chastain (2 months ago)
the whole thing stinks if you ask me.
Akitake (2 months ago)
The Linux Foundation is the downfall of Linux as we know it.
Microsoft plays by their handbook: Adopt, expand, extinguish.
[email protected] (2 months ago)
Useless company joins useless organisation, more news at 11.
Janne Granström (2 months ago)
Foundation for they who just use open source for their benefits. Like "we are here too!" Well jep but no :)
The Garden of Eatin (2 months ago)
Adobe + Open Source = PDF.
Ian Henderson (2 months ago)
blatant grab for power?
TimelessTrance (2 months ago)
The only good thing adobe made was PDF... format, not reader.
Tim H. (2 months ago)
We as the FOSS community really need to start building our mars colonies now so it's easy enough to jump ship when Linux tanks from all this corporate involvement. Get Redox up and self-hosting pronto, then make it as awesome as it can be. Take Linux and say "Heck with all this noise", strip it down to bare essentials, throw POSIX to the wind and make something else awesome. Hell, even that bare metal node.js kernel would be worth exploring if only for fringe development. We need new ideas and fresh air in the FOSS OS game, and Linux being consumed and stifled by megacorporations is a perfectly good kick in the pants to get us back to doing what OSS devs do best: massively parallel design iteration.
Fr. Dismas Sayre, O.P. (2 months ago)
I feel synergistically migrated to a collaborative, open source blockchain of interoperability!
Sean Campbell ن (2 months ago)
Linux Foundation best watch their backs.
Bullfrog's Workshop (2 months ago)
Lol. They're already doomed. Hahahahahahahahhahahahahahha!
CountryfiedLinux (2 months ago)
I see there's people that think this is still Steve Ballmer's Microsoft.
CountryfiedLinux (2 months ago)
I haven't seen any actual evidence of this kind of thing actually happening, but of course I'm against it if it does. It's definitely violating their TOS.+Mitchel Valentino
Mitchel Valentino (2 months ago)
CountryfiedLinux No, I haven’t. They don’t siphon as you suggest. But they can. Instead they monitor activity in real time. If something trips their algo, then they might record remotely. Seriously, don’t be naive. Not only can Microsoft do this, but so can third party bad actors who have backdoors to your system at a lower level than the OS. Intel Management Engine, for example. Check out some of Snowden’s info, too. It’s the layer below the OS typically.
CountryfiedLinux (2 months ago)
+Mitchel Valentino You've actually observed Microsoft siphoning data directly from the local drive? If that's the case then they should take legal action against Microsoft because that violates their own terms of service.
Mitchel Valentino (2 months ago)
Best to just install Debian or Fedora or Mint or whatever Linux distro one prefers.
Mitchel Valentino (2 months ago)
CountryfiedLinux I’m a professional pen tester. I’ve observed it on my clients’ various Windows 10 systems. The LTSB release is the only version that ever cooperates with the user, and even the LTSB version requires some serious tinkering via PowerShell scripts to function in a non-invasive, sane way. If you can get ahold of a pirated or legitimate LTSB version, I highly recommend it. It’ll still fight the user to update and phone home, but only infrequently and it’s easily mitigated. Every other version of Windows 10 is a dumpster fire of an OS from a security and privacy standpoint.
rigtio8887 (2 months ago)
>Microsoft >open >trust Even without watching the video you can tell that this whole thing is a shitshow
Jay Bhagat (2 months ago)
Alexios Zavras swallowed Brian Kernighan 12:26
Jonathan Hirschbaum (2 months ago)
Fork everything GitHub until you can
Confused Wolf (2 months ago)
Microsoft anything: open source? contradiction!. you get nag messages if you do not stir your coffee from monkeysoft...I smell corporate lies (remember Microsoft came from....). Am sure the elders of the community have clean source for core that Monkeysoft can go after huh?
TheToric (2 months ago)
If Microsoft wants my trust, they need to formally apologize for past actions, release ALL their code under gpl, mit, or bsd, and change thier name.
Mel Gibson (2 months ago)
TheToric ...i would forgive them if steve balmer stuck his head in a woodchipper
Mojo Neko (2 months ago)
Hi watched your video and subscribed to your channel! I just recently built a new PC for running Linux from the parts I had from upgrading my Win7 gaming PC. I'm not a hardcore computer tech I think these companies are concerned that "regular" guys like me are starting to migrate to Linux use a good VPN with TOR and away from all the snooping, data mining and telemetry on the Windows 10 OS which I despise (I have a laptop with it). I have concerns about where this is all going I am migrating to Linux and minimizing my use of services like Goggle, Amazon and anything else I think might snooping on me. How can these companies attempt to infiltrate the Linux/Open Source community and subvert it be defended against? Thanks for the video's!
PixelOutlaw (2 months ago)
Should be called Open Ball & Chain if Microsoft is involved.
Udo (2 months ago)
Yes, this seems to be about convincing companies to pay extra to "cover their bases" when dealing with those scary open source things. As a byproduct, open source is made to look extra scary. This is "innovation" brought to you by lawyers.
DUck69 (2 months ago)
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Tom Marrero-Ortiz (1 month ago)
+Sophia Goodwin : Test reply successfully completed...
Sophia Goodwin (1 month ago)
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DUck69 (2 months ago)
Thank you for confirming. Back when I wrote that I suspected comments I make on this user were being hidden for others, but I have since concluded that is only the case sometimes.
Tom Marrero-Ortiz (2 months ago)
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Vladi Dlr (2 months ago)
They're trying so hard It's metastatic by now. Something off.
Alpha Visari (2 months ago)
Can’t trust Microsoft
Bullfrog's Workshop (2 months ago)
+Alpha Visari I use Haiku, FreeBSD and OpenBSD. I have no use for Win/Mac/Linux.
Alpha Visari (2 months ago)
+Bullfrog's Workshop yep, you can't fully trust linux either.
Bullfrog's Workshop (2 months ago)
And following that logic, I no longer trust Linux due to Microsoft's seat on the Linux Foundation board.
42jnyl (2 months ago)
"Build trust" lol I can't think of any organizations I trust less than Google, Facebook, and Microsoft.
Donegali (15 days ago)
+The Compiler Look up hypocrite in the dictionary. No denying Google have done some great (and not so great) things for the internet, but choosing not to trust them is not hypocritical in the slightest.
The Compiler (1 month ago)
Yet Google is the reason Linux and all the web tech you love is alive. You're kind of hypocrite here.
Alexandru Dragoi (2 months ago)
Facebook made FBOSS :)
Stephen Baldassarre (2 months ago)
Harman's whole MO is to buy reputable audio equipment manufacturers, shut down their R&D departments and move production to 3rd world countries. I really don't think they care about open-source anything.
Vladimir Mišev (2 months ago)
Fact that MS joined gives me a lot of trust, but I'll believe that they are truly about Open[A-Z] only if Oracle jumps on board ;> /s
Bit Surface (2 months ago)
complete slavery!!!! let's make revolution!!!! Sony, Microsoft, Adobe, lol. I am missing Autodesk :))))
Ron Netgrazer (2 months ago)
Autodesk would feel right at home in this corporate clubhouse.
jubalrahl (2 months ago)
The Legion of Doom!!!!!
heretolevitateme (2 months ago)
So...this a warchest AGAINST open source. "Make open source more friendly to our corporate interests."
bugsz1 (2 months ago)
...keep your enemies closer. - Microsoft
Okuno Zankoku (2 months ago)
If people had lost trust in me because I'd done a bunch of shitty things and I wanted to regain that trust, my strategy would be: 1) Shut the hell up about building trust, 2) do awesome things, 3) let trust sort itself out. It might just be that Microsoft needs to fire some communications "experts", but anytime I hear the word "trust" come out of Microsoft it reminds me of their past failures. As far as "building trust in open source licensing", uh... it's not that hard to trust an open source license. What they say is "even if we become actively malicious, at least you can just fork the last working version of the codebase and then can do things with it". That's why I use FLOSS stuff wherever I can. I don't even know what OpenChain is positioning itself for, but it looks more like some B2B BS than something by, for, and of the people.
Xyxox (2 months ago)
Harman is a Samsung subsidiary.
Andrew Greimann (2 months ago)
And Microserfs wonder why I do not trust what MSFT is doing... until Linux gets full Secure Boot support, Office is ported over, or other significant things that help *Linux* rather than take advantage of it are done, I really can’t trust that the new Microsoft has changed. Steps like this just ease the way for embracing Linux in three E’s fashion.
Tom Marrero-Ortiz (2 months ago)
I'm sorry, but Microsoft has always been the opposite of standardization.
tom merchant (2 months ago)
Hey Facebook gave us React!
rationalityfirst (2 months ago)
you forgot the /sarcasm
Anthony Rye (2 months ago)
Just checked and read portions of openchain FAQ and portions of what the openchain initiative is trying to achieve. First item I found concerning was avoiding legal responsibility. Second was creative Commons 4.0 this a very lengthy licensing model which has a lot of caveats so simple and easy licensing can't be farther from the truth. I think this will also allow the foundation to effectively control any future code so that if there is any potential conflicts via COC devs that contributed code to projects would not be able to pull their code like they could in gpl v2. Other issues that might have cropped up from this initiative is it is mandatory to be trained, and also the use of spdx which in the case of spdx I know it has to do with data exchange but I haven't researched enough of it yet to give a definite opinion based of facts. I agree the members that joined the openchain initiative a far from trustworthy. Especially when it comes to to privacy.
sjukfan (2 months ago)
Yeah... my eyes just glazed over when they started to speak corponese.
Asad Ahmad (2 months ago)
Microsoft, Google and Facebook are child molesting babysitters!!
Daniel Maslowski (2 months ago)
Besides the OSI or FSF, I am missing Apple in the list.
Tom Marrero-Ortiz (2 months ago)
I sorry to ask, why Apple?
Chad V (2 months ago)
Sorry, but the only thing that MSFT is building lately is mis/distrust...
Mc Swabin (2 months ago)
tl;dr Microsoft uses the open source compliance program as a proxy to extinguish competition similar to the SCO vs Linux battle. It's coming people. It's coming.
Ionut Dan Ognef (2 months ago)
so..i agree with you most of the time, but the thing about Microsoft is kinda getting old. I'm not a fanboy...i own a macbook with linux on it. Microsoft is a company, with employees that change and leadership that change, so maybe it can be real that the mentality has changed. Another thing is that every linux guru wished for mainstream linux...now it's mainstream. Did you really expect big companies not to want a piece of the pie?
j kadaver (2 months ago)
Ionut Dan Ognef Mircroshaft Have done very little to help but, have done a whole lot to damage to trust in the open source community. And have hardly made even the bare minimum effort’s to show they have any interest in actually advancing the world of open source. Instead what we have is a company that for years has been doing everything they can to shut down open source and if they can’t shut it down they find a way to leech money off of it. As if they didn’t have enough money in the coffers they can’t even resist not leaching license fees from the likes of android. I could quite possibly write an entire book in the comment section hear about why it’s so hard for everyone to drop the miss trust attitude towards Microsoft the power is in their hands to change that attitude and I’ve yet to see them really do anything. The best way they could start windows 11 open source. I mean even apple sorta tried with the OS X/ Darwin thing. On the other hand you hardly see Microsoft moving a inch and acting like they’re doing something special by saying a few buzz words, and pouring money into organizations that honestly I have become quite questionable when it comes to the open source world. Which ends up looking a whole lot more like trying to take over and find a way to control open source community than actually trying to help & improve. About the only open source thing you really see them do ends up being technologies that are damn near obsolete already. Considering how much Microsoft has openly worked against open source initiatives I don’t think Brian rails against them enough. If you’re maintaining a pack of untrained dogs you don’t simply stop correcting the bad ones you continue until they learn to be obedient or else they go rogue. If someone hit you in the face every time you saw them but then one day they came up and hugged you does that mean I’m supposed to suddenly trust that person or should I continue to think they’re up to no good until they actually make a serious effort to turn my opinion around. And until that I probably shouldn’t stop warning people that you might get hit in the face if you get near that person.
Adam Search (2 months ago)
Is it possible it’s more about helping companies out by tracking software licenses so they don’t get hit by lawsuits rather than promoting open source
くたばれ (2 months ago)
oh, those "open source lovers". I bet I saw GNU/NT and Adobe Creative Suite Community Edition somewhere.
Aaron Rocco (2 months ago)
Embrace, extend, and extinguish will always be the name of the game here
Vanadain (2 months ago)
Maybe we should stop it. Cut off from suspicious companies and their money? Or smthing.
Hrnek Bezucha (2 months ago)
It doesn't matter whether Microsoft &co heart open-source. Because open-source is just another way to leverage more power and money. That's the sole purpose of a company once it gets this big. To generate income. Open-source means lots of people who may contribute and don't have to be paid. They still keep a total control of the software. This will only lead to more projects that are community project wannabe, crippled by design. More open-source licenses in hope to make GPL hard to find and eventually forgotten. Giving people what they want a long as it's not free software. If most open-source projects today were to become _free_ they would need a serious overhaul.
Bradley P (2 months ago)
More avenues to peddle their wares. Marketing, Marketing, Marketing. They want dominance not cooperation. Can you say inverted totalitarianism.
Patrick Outhier (2 months ago)
I'll be honest I just saw OpenChain and zoned out. My brain went, Ok people we need to change our image, we are going to start a shell company with a techie modern name and use that as our new public face. Random employee: What if we take open source and blockchain and smash them together. Something like OpenChain. That's perfect Tim, The OpenChain Group will be the new public face of Developer Gulags Inc. Side note the black and white makes every episode feel like a flashback of the previous episode.
Nihil obstat FPV (2 months ago)
Tldr version, it's the money stupid
Lemaki (2 months ago)
I think what they mean by "building trust in open source" is "building trust TOWARDS open source AMONG companies" and not the other way around.
asumazilla (2 months ago)
You mean like being able to read, audit, compile the code?
vskye1 (2 months ago)
Sony released that free rootkit when you bought a CD back in the day. They gave away around 22 million of them. ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal
Mitchel Valentino (2 months ago)
Microsoft is like that meme saying, “Hello there, fellow Linux kids.” What a joke. So does this mean that Microsoft is going to start open sourcing their current software? Will GNU/Windows be the next update of windows 10? MIT license at least? lol. Microsoft is trying to neuter Linux. The Linux Foundation has abysmal myopic standards. Shame on them both. FSF is the true standard bearer of Linux and software freedom.
WorBlux (1 month ago)
+Sophia Goodwin A bit of a joke. However having a package manager and reasonable file browser (dolphin) makes the whole experience a lot more like a Linux distro. Especially when you can play the full gamut of the same simple games.
Sophia Goodwin (1 month ago)
+WorBlux What? None of those things you list (except WSL if you choose to install GNU utils as part of a distro) are part of the GNU project...
WorBlux (2 months ago)
They added openSSH and WSL, if a user adds chocolatey and KDE on windows, and you're pretty close to GNU/Windows.
Onur BIÇAKÇI (2 months ago)
Totally agree. They just found new way after halloween documents..
Mitchel Valentino (2 months ago)
Tom Marrero-Ortiz The world is a much better place thanks to Richard Stallman. He’s become a meme, but it doesn’t detract from his sincerity and vision. His actual work and philosophy, when examined closely, is truly remarkable and inspiring.
Andrew Singleton (2 months ago)
'open[thing]' Client/member entities are not required to abide by open standards. 'why are we paying attention to this body?'
Sevak Fair (2 months ago)
Who is? This is clearly a consortium designed around taking money for certification somehow and finding a way for large businesses to stay proprietary while using open source code.
peter geary (2 months ago)
Wow, this totally doesn't look dodgy at all, something tells me they're unhappy with the freedom Linux offers people
BieHDC (2 months ago)
>call yourself Open[thing] >let lots of not open [entity] join lots of these organisations are so hypocritical...
Motolav (2 months ago)
> be executive of Linux foundation > Uses macOS
santiago macias villegas (2 months ago)
Eres genial amigo,un abrazo desde San Jerónimo Antioquia Colombia
Marcos Scheeren (2 months ago)
Other members... Facebook.. Adobe.. Case ceased! More like TivotizationChain.

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